My Big Fat American Gypsy Wedding Recap: Baptisms and Bling

46 Comments

1. 1
   Chef Pants
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 10:16 am

   I am fascinated with this show. I too have noticed that it seems like TLC has picked one family to focus on…either that or they truly are so inbred everyone is related! After seeing the first episode of Mellie, I knew they were going to hitch their horse to her and do whatever they could to promote her. I read somewhere that Mellie is going to get her own show!

2. 2
   notwithoutmytv
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 11:39 am

   I’m gonna go with inbred. All these gypsies ACT like they’re inbred.

   And is a chronic inability to be on time for important events a gypsy thing, or just a white trash thing? ‘Cause the only thing these hillbillies would show up on time for would be an open bar, or a half-price sale on wife beaters at Wal-mart.

3. 3
   TVKimmy
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 11:49 am

   I don’t watch the show, but I love your recaps. After your first couple recaps I knew I could never sit through a viewing, but I sure do enjoy reading about it!

   Here’s hoping we get some more tit-baring gypsy fisticuffs in the special.

4. 4
   kthxbai
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 12:34 pm

   @Pollyanna You deserve a standing ovation for doing such a great job on this show. Even though you’ve had everything from your baby upset from the circle of life tragedy. To the lights going out. To people making comments that are so over TLC that your minds eye can see us making faces. That deserve the vocabulary word of disgruntled. But you made us laugh anyway. And got us cheered as much back up as we could get.

   @Chef Pants It wasn’t so much that they picked. It was the opposite. The people that picked to sign up for the show. That’s the only 1s they could put on it.

   The other day I was watching 1 of those shows about Amish people. If you’ve seen any of them, they’re way more serious and documentary style.

   But they’re always about people that left their Amish group. Or those kids on Rumspringa they sent to the UK. We’re not going to see any regular Amish people that keep their ways on TV. Since 1 of their main ways is keeping to themselves.

   It’s the same with Gypsies and Travellers. Which we might think of as being different as night and day from Amish. But that’s 1 thing they have in common.

   I’m still excited to see the Natl Geo 1 next month though. What all they’ll come up with. It’ll be sure to be more educational than Jet’s Gypsy Slippers.

5. 5
   maryedith
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 12:35 pm

   I may be the only person who cares about this, but the religious aspect confuses the hell out of me. These people are covered in crosses and crucifixes and they make the sign of the cross and do other vaguely Catholic things. Sondra Celli says very confidently that they go to church every single week. But this crew, at least, obviously never goes to church. You don’t wait to baptize your kids “until you can afford it” if you care about getting them baptized at all. And whenever these gypsies do anything in a church (which has only happened once or twice anyway) it’s been apparent that it was the first time they’ve been to that particular parish. So…where do they get the reputation for being religious?

6. 6
   labowner
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 12:35 pm

   Didn’t that inbred fighting fool from England/Ireland say they don’t send out invites, it’s all word of mouth and you never know who or how many will show up? With this group I am going to assume the word of mouth was the producers/camera folks.

   What a lame ending. Didn’t I see that same baby dress in the Europe version or are they all starting to blend? Seeing the girls in Europe actually sketch out their dresses, have themes for their weddings authenticated it compared to this season.

   Here is my thought process, season 1 was pretty good, maybe not full on access, but I do think we got to see most sides of the gypsy lifestyle. I went and researched further and watched a program that the opposite attitudes from the TLC show. I understand I don’t live it 24/7 so I will never fully understand. Got the gist, gypsies come in all shapes and sizes like everyone else. I digress. I think word got out and they were not welcome to film there anymore. Or couldn’t find willing participants. Have they really exhausted every thing/one in one season? So they take the crap back here and attempt to recreate but fail miserable because either people here saw the program and want no part or we don’t have the real equivalent because we force people into a more controlled environment.

   I love they hate the establishment, but I don’t see any of them turning down government assistance in the form of food stamps and rental vouchers.

   Pollyanna, thanks for sucking me in with your recaps. Anticipating the 2 hour train wreck that is Mellie. The twice divorced stripping gypsy.

7. 7
   snowshoecat
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 12:36 pm

   Polly, thank you for recapping this for us! Have to watch a rerun ’cause we were with our “real” (as opposed to our “reality”) friends when this aired.

   Awww, we have hashed and rehashed all the phoniness of this show all season, so there really isn’t much to say, is there? North or south, Gypsy or Gorger, ignorant folk all act pretty much the same. I noticed that even the little boys sport “Pauly D” hair.

   What could have possibly pissed anybody off in this epi? Of course, that’s what I thought about in the last one.

   I am still, however, amazed that the men forbid their wives to drink. Really? Wonder how hubbycat’s forbidding me to do or not to do something would work out. No I don’t.

   It was kinda fun to see Pat baby. I really do wonder if he has a son-in-law yet.

   Hope everybody is at the special and some loose ends (like the aforementioned son-in-law) are tied up. Keep us posted.

8. 8
   snowshoecat
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 12:51 pm

   Wow, while I was busy typing, there were three more entries. I wondered where you had been, Kthxy!

   What other show did you see, LabO? I’d be interested to see it.

   And we have mentioned before, as Kthxy mentioned regarding the similarity with the Amish, REAL Rom keep to themselves and would never resort to being filmed. Probably only one group of sorta-kinda-gypsy-types agreed to be filmed. I’ll bet it all happened so fast that nobody had a chance to see the previews and stop participating. It’s all make-believe to ca$h in on the MBFGW EU success.

   I thought they were supposed to be Catholic, but most of the weddings have been in either Protestant churches or the City Hall. Nothing is as it “should be” with this group of fame whores.

9. 9
   maryedith
   Posted June 21, 2012 at 12:53 pm

   I wasn’t buying that about the wives not being allowed to drink. Maybe not in public, or not without their husbands. But not at all? Was that the case on the English show? Because that does NOT sound either Irish or Eastern European.

10. 10
    kthxbai
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    @maryedith it’s coming I promise. Virgin gaudiness, 7 dwarves and potencias and @snowshoecat’s right about the Catholic thing.

    It’s just so confusing I’m trying to make it as short as I can. Since it’s also interesting.

    Oh and about the drinking. On the UK show they said the rule was girls can’t drink till their wedding day. It’s odd that these people that have just about stopped keeping their ways made that 1 even worse.

11. 11
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr! They just can’t keep their traditions straight, can they?

    Special coming up July 1! How about a Tweet-a-thon? Worth getting Twitter for if you don’t have it.

    Was it not being able to drink before marriage in England because they marry so young– before legal age? WOW! That was certainly a wierd sentence. Yikes. But I think you get the idea.

12. 12
    labowner
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    The show is called Truth About Travellers – if you YouTube you can find. Here are the links to the Religion and Education clips.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjNpmjrjfAg – Religion
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yl0t2IcXU&feature=related – Education

13. 13
    maryedith
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    You can drink at 16 in England. Were they marrying younger than that? I bet the show producers just left off the bit about “until you’re married” to heighten the supposed drama of them having that bottle of champagne. I wonder if they really have bacholerette parties either. When Mellie and co had one, I thought, “Wait. I thought there was supposed to be talk about sex before these virgins got hitched!”

    I’m so sorry for my obtuseness, kthxy, but this is the second time I haven’t gotten your joke about Virgin gaudiness, etc. It seems to be a play on Catholic words that I should totally know but I don’t — and I feel very stupid!

14. 14
    maryedith
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    Dwarves instead of deadly sins, something like that?

15. 15
    Closet fan
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    Pollyanna great job this season! I look forward to you recapping other shows. I like the UK version better. This one got old so fast. I always feel sorry for the brides when I see less then 20 people sitting in the pews. I wish they would have an episode letting us know how everyone is doing. I wonder if any of our young brides are pregnant?

16. 16
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Hey Closet, I’m with you! As I said about Pat Baby, let’s hear if Priscilla married that guy who smelled good, looked good, and didn’t say anything disrespectful all evening. Talk about the criteria for marriage. Are you going to join a twitter for the 2 hour special July 1? I’ve been on one for T&T and it is the most fun–live snarking.

    Thank you LabO!! I’ll check it out.

    as Kthxy and I have both said, the Brit one was better. Much better. This is a wannabe, but I wouldn’t miss the special finale for anything.

17. 17
    maryedith
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    @labowner — I watched the religion link — thanks! Whooeee there were some vile comments afterward! I was interested to see that a couple of people said that Travellers are just Romany wannabes, or something to that effect. Seems these people do take themselves and their traditions way more seriously in the UK. I was laughing at how much more covered up they were, and the churchgoers were SHOCKED at their “indecent” clothes! Finally “Irish Orthodox” Priest? Never heard of Irish Orthodox.

18. 18
    kthxbai
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    @maryedith A while ago you were wondering if the Virgen de Guadalupe might be popular with Gypsies as a yard statue because of gaudiness. It got me thinking about yard statues. And it made me laugh! Not at you though.

    But because the different notions people have about gaudiness is 1 of the things I’ve always gotten a kick out of.

    (Anybody that’s mixed enough is going to be diversity privileged. So a whole lot of random things are going to make you laugh)

    Anyway, my guess is that Gypsy or not, for anybody that’s got 1 for regular reasons, like religion and ways, the Virgencita de Guadalupe doesn’t so much as wiggle the needle on their gaudiness meter.

    What might though, are those statues and pictures of Middle Eastern people with yellow hair and blue eyes. Like the Virgen de Lourdes. Specially the younger generations. But then I somebody else might think of them as kind of a hoot. The gaudiness would just be a bonus.

    But the craziest Gypsy yard statue custom I’ve seen isn’t any of those.

    It’s the 7 dwarves from Snow White. That got double syncretized. Or maybe triple. Some smart person’ll have to explain that part. And I hope 1 comes along because I’ve never seen anything about it in books.

    Like everything else it got started in Africa. 1000s of yrs ago in a country called Yoruba. Their religion had a lot of different versions of God. When Europe started the companies up, some of the Yoruba people they sold to their managers etc would put symbols of the most popular 1s on stuff. So they could keep their religion up. Specially in the Caribbean islands. And parts of the USA deep south.

    Since the companies thought European religion was better for business, the Yoruba people would swap out saints for the real 1s. Over time 1 of the things that turned into is the 7 potencias.

    Other people had got ahold of it too. Way before that. Like ancient Greeks that called their version the 7 archons. But since I’m talking about USA yards it seems like it’d have to be the 7 potencias.

    I don’t know how it happened. But my guess is it’s probably because of cooperation between groups. Like Mardi Gras Indians in Louisiana.

    Of course as time went on, the companies’ ideas about which European religion was the best for business didn’t stay the same. But just like with anything like that, 1 thing that doesn’t change is it being best for business for people to take it to heart.

    Which is why coming down to modern times, in some areas people would keep their statues in the house more. (Both regular and so to speak) But Gypsies could leave their 7 dwarves out!

    And at least up till several yrs ago there were places in the USA deep south where you could still see them. By houses and caravans both.

    Even though you know they couldn’t any more run down a list of orishas and tell you Santa Barbara = Chango etc if you offered them a million $ to do it.

19. 19
    maryedith
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Are you saying that something called the Seven Potencias (Seven Powers? I’m sorry, I couldn’t tell if it was a Yoruban god, or a European substitution for one) got confused with the Seven Dwarves? Because that is the funniest thing I’ve ever heard.
    For the record, I didn’t think of Our Lady of Guadeloupe as gaudy until I started wondering why she was appearing in the Gypsies’ lawns. I have her in my house; she’s beautiful. And I was touched by the part in the video about the devotion to shrines among the Travellers, which makes total sense. And I’m sure part of the devotion to the BVM comes from the Flight into Egypt which the interviewer was apparently too thick-skulled to take into account when he was questioning them about it. Mary had to be on the move just like them.

20. 20
    nooneinparticular
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    I am from Louisiana and I’m confused about what you mean by “Mardi Gras Indians in Louisiana” kthxbi. What are you referring to?

21. 21
    kthxbai
    Posted June 21, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    @maryedith It started as Yoruba religion. Then got swapped out for saints. And stuff like 7 potencias. Just the same 1s as on a regular old 7 potencias candle. And it’s that that I’m guessing went to 7 dwarves.

    @nooneinparticular A long time ago there was cooperation between groups there. So some of the people that have ancestors the companies brought from Africa wanted their ceremonial costumes to honor people from Native American tribes that helped them.

22. 22
    labowner
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 10:41 am

    MaryE my pleasure. It was nice to see the light bulb go off for some of them about education and the future. I understand the dropping out of school, I think most of us hated it, but thankful we stuck it out.

    Cultures change and those that embrace the future will survive. Sorry but barefoot, pregnant and stupid is not good for anyone’s future anymore.

    I wonder where they stand (if they have an opinion) about the English/Irish protestant/catholic debate.

23. 23
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 22, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    LabO (@22) we tend to judge others by our own standards; however I doubt whether the whole bunch combined has more than two analytical brain cells to rub together. Never mind their having an opinion about the English/Irish protestant/catholic debate.

24. 24
    kthxbai
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    I’ve now been told (in real life) that there are grocery stores in the world including USA that don’t have any 7 potencias candles. Much less the soap etc. And that if I wasn’t so butt ignorant I would’ve known that. So Here’s a picture of 1.

    (Sometimes it’ll say 7 poderes. Or 7 African Powers. And which saint = which orisha varies. But that’s a whole other big fat non Gypsy topic)

    @snowshoecat I think they’ve just had Protestant churches on the show for 2 reasons. 1 is the same old story. Of people that have quit keeping their ways. And which church they go to is just 1 more.

    But I think it’s also the areas they’re in. Some places in the USA have more Catholics than all the other religions put together.

    But in others every Catholic in the line at Walmart’s got 5 Protestants behind him and another 6 in front. (And all the other religions are called “huh?”)

    That church they went to doesn’t even have baptisms. But the Gypsies do! So they got their babies all dressed up in baptism clothes and had a party. Just like they’d do at a Catholic church.

    Not all that Gypsy related but still interesting
    The same thing’s happening in a lot of Protestant churches in those areas. Because some of them advertise a lot. Specially to Latin Americans that haven’t been in the USA that long. And they get their new members. But the new members bring their same religious ways right along with them. So besides the baptism-free baptisms, Virgen de Guadalupe statues have started popping up in places that never expected to get 1.

    Oh and I bet the reason Pat Baby was there is because the baptism family’s church is in the next county over from Douglasville.

25. 25
    maryedith
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 1:45 pm

    Not all, but most Catholic churches have rules about baptisms and weddings that involve being a parishioner (baptism) and spiritual preparation (wedding). So it didn’t surprise me that these last-minute weddings were not being held in Catholic churches. But it did bother me when the show tried to make it seem that the Gypsies on the show were big on following their traditional faith. Because that was patently not the case.

26. 26
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 23, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    MaryE, so true about the rules in parishes. Our priest refuses to perform rites for anyone not attending mass.

    Kthxy, you are certainly a wealth of information. Interesting about the statues! Not too many in rural northern Wisconsin, although I have seen a few. Never even thought about where one goes to buy one.

    Still have my doubts about the ones in this series being Kosher.

    Can’t wait until the July 1 special!

27. 27
    KartofflMuter
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 1:00 am

    I still don’t see how they reconcile all this with the fact that their true origin is India and Europe was a jumping off point when Hitler went crazy. By rights,they should be Hindus and Muslims and a smattering of Sikhs and more picked up over the centuries as they wandered through Egypt and Syria,Hungary,Roumanian, Bulgaria, etc. They shouldn’t be hillbillies. I Europe,Gypsies were known for their knowledge of horses and as musicians,violinists, guitarists,pianists, and singers. I lived in Washington for years and it was a given that shortly after you bought a new house,the gypsy truck would come by and sell you a picnic table for the back yard. $25. The were sturdy and lasted for years.In Hungary,they hustled you at gas stations,offering fresh watermelons.In Vienna,we were delighted to be entertained in the oldest coffee house in Vienna by a Gypsy Troup that had just come from Budapest. They played flawlessly for the 3 hours we were there, Rakoczy March,
    old Hungarian classics,Viennese waltzes. The only similarity between them and the hilbillies was that J.R.s choice of black jacket and pants with white shirt (sans pink vest-red would have been better) and large brimmed hat,is very similar to what the Hungarian male from 1920 would wear,cane,handlebar mustache,and all. The women would wear heavily embroidered blouses,and full colorful skirts with multiple skirts underneath. The older and the richer you were,the more skirts you wore,the object being for the quantity to be so great that the top skirt was horizontal with the ground. Then when you danced,the skirt bounced. This was worn with red leather boots and as many pearl necklaces as you were able to afford. I sometimes wear 12. Then come bangles and embroidered shawls,folded in a triangle. Put them next to their Rajasthani distant relatives and you can see the similarity. But next to the Hill billies? No resemblance..

28. 28
    sarcasatire
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 2:19 am

    Late to the party, but I must speak of my Siete Poderes candle. It sits next to my statue of Yemanja. or Oshun, depending . The Yoruba tradition took many forms in the “New World”, and Yemanja = Iemanja, is the the goddess of the sea. Oshun=Oxum, is the goddess of the rivers and lakes. Both are depicted as a mermaid. So is Iara, a Brazilian water goddess, that which my daughter carries as a middle name.

    Yes, many enslaved people adopted the saints as a way to practice their African religion without persecution. Yet, I prefer the old gods. I practice Candomble, the Afro-Brazilian adaption of the Yoruba gods. This is the first I heard of them connected to the Seven Dwarfs, but it’s not entirely unbelievable, based on the significance of the gods and goddesses.

    Xango – God of the sky and thunder
    Iemanja – Goddess of the sea
    Oxum – Goddess of the rivers and lakes
    Ogum – God of war
    Iansa – Goddess of thunder and wind
    Oxossi – God of the forest
    Exu – The messenger (sometimes called The Devil)

    They all fall under God, “Olodumare”, for which the music group Olodum is named. (You may see them in Michael Jackson’s video “They Don’t Really Care About Us.” ) Olodum is an amazing band of young percussionists, performing everywhere. And to perform with MJ must have been amazing. However, the candomble religion is fleeting, dying down with each generation. As an American with Geechee roots, I understand the importance of preserving one’s culture, and I hope that the history and customs prevail for years to come.

    Axé !

29. 29
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 6:53 am

    Sarcassy, how wonderful that you are preserving your traditions and will pass them along to that little cutie in your pic! Since you practice rather than preach, she will no doubt hold them dear.

    Without family or tradition, I feel adrift in the Cosmos. It’s just nice to see that there are those with that wealth among the Gasmii. No wonder I feel so comfortable here.

30. 30
    kthxbai
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 11:27 am

    @snowshoecat I wish! What I’ve got a wealth of is old aunties from every page in the catalog. That love to tell even older stories. And a big bag of guesses! But you made my day anyway. So thanks!

    You’re making a tradition right here. With your internet family. Building up a wealth of analyzing and commentary. For when people even way in the future go to write their theses and stuff about trashy reality shows. And how the viewers included some of the world’s finest old internet families.

    @maryedith You’re right! I didn’t even think about that. For all we know they might go to a Catholic church every Sunday. Which does have rules etc. So these families might’ve made an exception for their wedding or whatever. Because the TLC production rules say it’s got to be some place where they can go film it Thursday!

    @sarcasatire Is Exu the candomblé Legba? Do you keep a coconut head? I always got a kick out of people seeing the Legba head in somebody’s house at a party or something. And thinking it’s some kind of door stop made out of folk art.

    (That’s still about the topic because the funniest place to watch that happen are areas like the 1s we just saw on the show. Because you might get to hear it pronounced fo-kaahht. If you’re extra lucky. I’ve also got a funny story about Yemalla. But I’ll put it on Facebook)

31. 31
    Z
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 12:04 pm

    As far as religion goes. I researched this a little after I first saw the UK show and from what I understand, Gypsies tended to adopt the religion of whatever community they more or less settled in. So You have Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, etc Gypsies depending on what part of the world you are in. So it kind of makes sense that these “American Gypsies” in the South have adopted some Protestant practices. Though, I will say that, 1) chances are, none of them are following any religion too stringently and 2) most of their paraphernalia has Catholic roots so they probably would categorize themselves as Catholics. As someone mentioned, they probably weren’t allowed to use any Catholic churches because they are not members. It’s pretty obvious in Chris’ case that they had never set foot in that church before and never would again.

32. 32
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Kthxy, how lucky you are!!!!!! And it is a wonderful, enriching thing to belong to a community that is rich in shared knowledge. We’re having fun and sharing a sense of togetherness through common interests– and interests cannot be more common than popular culture (rim shot).

    Z, if you have been reading this thread for a while you know that there isn’t much “real” in this reality program. If the people filmed are not real Rom, then we aren’t seeing the real culture. If the people being filmed are Rom, they aren’t about to expose their real culture, so we aren’t seeing the real culture either.

    Hmmmmmmmmmm

33. 33
    KartofflMuter
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Are we still talking about Gypsyies? Because they came from the Indian sub continent. When did we move off to Yoruba or the world of Anne Rice,seriously? Do you know any real Gypsies? Because these fakes need not apply.
    In Europe ,racist anti-gypsy sentiment has been resurfacing stronger than ever with new,ever-more restrictive laws and democracy has been good for the majority,it has been disatrous for the Tsigoyna or Roma.Under Communism,they had housing,food and education. Under Democracy, they are barely surviving. And while I hate Communism,- there had to be ONE good point. As a Hungarian,I really hate communism. It’s what drove my family out of Europe.The Kremlin finished what Hitler couldn’t do. But in Bulgaria,people are screaming”,kill the Gypsies and turn them into soap.” It’s all a little too familiar and I’m embarassed for these Hillbillies and their electric dresses who worship crystals and windex but don’t know who they are.

34. 34
    kthxbai
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    @KartofflMuter We may be talking about all of it. Which might be partly my fault. But also partly the fault of stuff that comes up being confusing. And then there’s some stuff that like you say is scary as shit. I want to answer you some more once I rest my hands. Most people will want to just scroll on past this next part.

    It was supposed to be in the comment about the Virgen de Guadalupe. And stuff getting syncretized. But I was trying to make it shorter. And got distracted. Till @snowshoecat and @sarcasatire got me to thinking about passing stuff on. (So this 1 being long is their fault)

    Anyway, she’s really a female version of God named Tonantzin. Specially in charge of corn. You probably heard the official story when St Juan Diego finally got turned into a saint.

    But the real story is that same place where St Juan Diego had his nap and where the Basilica de Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe is today, is exactly the same place where Tonantzin’s temple always was. Till the companies busted it up. Like they did near about everything like that they got ahold of. Thinking the Europe religion would be better for business.

    That’s how come she’s got ears of corn all around. It’s like that on the tilma. And all the images of her you see anywhere. They’re all copied from the actual tilma. Which is in the Basilica today. Hung up in front.

    It’s not like the real story’s ever been a secret. Just that it didn’t get talked about much.

    Now on the Virgen’s birthday you can watch her manañitas live on every Spanish language network there is. And the last few yrs they’ve got a priest that tells about it. I can’t remember his name. But I’m pretty sure he’s Tarasco tribe. (Not to stereotype. But Tarasco people being known for doing an amazing job of passing things on for the last 500 yrs is 100% true)

    So every yr he tells the real story. Live on TV. In Nahuatl and in Spanish. The Virgen de Guadalupe’s never quit being Tonantzin the Corn Goddess. Not for a minute. And the Basilica’s her temple. Right where it’s always been. Just in case there was anybody that didn’t know.

35. 35
    KartofflMuter
    Posted June 24, 2012 at 5:52 pm

    And I repeat-Candomble-with the Yoruba tribe of AFRICA and the West Indies and brought to Louisiana with the Cajun/Indian jumble of cultures and The Virgin of Guadalupe,which is endemic to the Catholics of Mexico . What the heck does this have to do with Gypsies that came from the East Indian subcontinent-most specifically Rajisthan and Punjab??? The word “Gypsy” referred to the belief that they had come from Egypt,which in their travels,they had done. If this sight was discussing voodoo or Orisha or anything like that,I’d understand. But Baby Pat and Mellie don’t cast spells or light candles or smoke cigars and incense . They spend cash,buy ugly dresses,show up drunk in grocery stores, brush their teeth with magical bleach and fight in public all the while proclaim their proud history and tradition. Believe me. I have nothing against gypsies, But these are the K-mart of gypsies. They will never even be Sears. Not ever. Who glorifies ignorance in the 21st Century? And who still preaches “Barbie should marry at 16, not be DIRTY, and be OCD as part of her tradition?” Hindu gypsies have more freedom in India. I saw them in Delhi and Mumbai and Kholapur and Kolkatta. They worked next to their husbands. They had to. Money is hard to come by in India.

36. 36
    snowshoecat
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 5:38 am

    TaterMom, kthxy got off on a tangent (oh sure, when in trouble, blame the kitty) because somebody (s) began a side thread concerning all the statues in yards shown in a clip of haters going through Murphey’s village. It’s all very confusing, and weaves throughout discussions since the first recap.

    The point that we have been trying to make all along about this series is that the idiots filmed purporting to be gypsies are only tangentially at best related to Rom or Travellers. Flush with the success of the British MBFGW series, TLC decided to show home-grown.

    Now here’s the conundrum that I mentioned earlier: if these are gypsy wanna-be fame whores (which they most certainly are) we are not seeing true Traveller culture, because they don’t know it; If these are really Travellers (which they are most likely not) they are secretive about their society and wouldn’t show it on film. Either way we see a bunch of hilljacks leading despicable lives and we have found out nothing about Travelers in the U.S.

    I suspect the upcoming NatGeo special will give us greater insights, although I can’t imagine American Travellers revealing much there either. They want to be left alone for all the reasons you cited.

37. 37
    kthxbai
    Posted June 25, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    @KartofflMuter The tangent was 100% my fault. I’d apologize more if it was a show about regular Gypsies.

    But since it was just people that had a kind of Gypsy connection (or did a long time ago). Plus almost all about just that 1 family of even them. So I might as well tell about Gypsy selected yard statues I’ve seen over time. And how thinking about the history makes you go hmm.

    @snowshoecat It turns out we shouldn’t get our educational hopes up too high for Natl Geo. If you’re watching the 1 they did about the Hutterites you’ve already cranked your hopes down. The regular Hutterites are so mad! And feel betrayed.

    On the positive side, as a stagey looking reality show that doesn’t make a lick of sense, it’s a hoot.

38. 38
    KartofflMuter
    Posted June 26, 2012 at 10:33 am

    So I’m not going crazy-yet? I take Gypsies seriously. You,all of us on this planet,are no more than 50th cousin from each other. So if the man next to you is picking a pimple, and you are older than him,chances are good you have the right to say,”now cut that out or I’ll smack you and send you to your room.” If you were born on the same continent , your relationships are much closer. I was in Hungary,visiting Sopron,the town where my father was born (population approx. 60,000) and we were driving to Budapest. On the way there,we stopped at a small antique/junque shop. That’s my idea of a souvenir. I walked in and in seconds saw a large oil painting of a boy in diapers holding a cat. It was my son! Now my son was already out of college. But there was his picture. I can adequately swear in Hungarian,but conveying what I wanted to say was impossible. I went with pantomime and German. We had to return the next day to buy the picture .She had no concept of Mastercard or Traveler’s Checks . But I had him. Every morning ,I wake up to a painting of my son,diapers,his stomach sticking out,golden brown skin, dark curls covering his head, and those deep reddish brown eyes staring at me. Half-way around the world. How impossible is that? Not very. This shop was 60km from Sopron. Sopron is within 40 miles of Vienna. I was born in Austria,117 miles from Vienna. I wish the picture could tell me more than that my son has a twin. When? Who? What did his parents look like? How closely are we related-because-you know we are.
    Now Hutterites…
    But what about the lesbian wedding. Any thoughts? I was hoping one of them would get a blinged out tux but sadly,no.

39. 39
    maryedith
    Posted June 26, 2012 at 11:05 am

    I have been enjoying the digressions very much, and I don’t think they are digressions because they are about cultures and religions holding their own by subversively adapting to the oppressor culture. As far as Gypsies all coming from the same origin, I’m a little confused. It seems the Travellers and the Romany have different ways of doing things, and some of the Youtube comments after the Religion video indicate that Romanies despise Travellers. I’m assuming they all came from the same place in the beginning but have taken on different habits depending on where they went. I’m interested in how the different groups have adapted to different cultures and am curious about what things are holdovers from the original culture. That’s why I ask questions about these things.

40. 40
    kthxbai
    Posted June 26, 2012 at 9:57 pm

    @maryedith Thank you! All the words get used to mean both all the time now. But what’s called Gypsies or Rom or Romani means the 1s that went up to Europe from S Asia 1000s of yrs ago. Nobody knows for sure when. So you might as well pick which guess you like the best. Or think up a new 1.

    Travellers used to be used more to mean Irish Travellers. (Like the people in Murphy Village. And I think Pat Baby’s family. Because of their last name.) They started up later. They were Irish people that got internally displaced. Back when Europe was having their plagues and religion rebrandings and Middle Age Rose Wars and I don’t know what all. They took up a lot of the same ways the Gypsies had. Some people say another bunch started up even later than that. During some of the 19th century troubles. With ethnic cleansing and potatoes. So I guess you can pick your guess there too.

    But the 1s on the show have all been mixing for so long I bet even they can’t trace it back. Even the Rom 1s have mixed out just about all the S Asia from their face. To where you can hardly see it even when you know it’s there somewhere.

    If you go back to during the election I put a real long comment about it. This was the show Pollyanna did her election recap for. So it’ll be somewhere in there. I wish we still had a forum. I could just put a link.

    @KartofflMuter If you’re crazy enough you can go root around the 1st 700 comments on all the episodes of this show (including the election) and see us all talking up a storm about Gypsies.

    You described that painting so good I could just see it hanging up there!

41. 41
    KartofflMuter
    Posted June 27, 2012 at 9:40 am

    It’s a wonderful picture-and thanks for explaining.While I thought the side road was interesting,I thought I’d stumbled into Neverland. I’ve read all of Anne Rice and her Witches books alongside the Vamp books and then bought up her research library when she was selling it off a year or 2 ago including her Orisha studies and her Gypsy research.
    So-I might just be crazy enough to go through 700 comments. I’ve gone through 120,000 items on E-bay to find one “gem” that was in the wrong category.The patient mind endures.Of course-I have short term memory loss-so I might forget what I’m doing after 50-ha.

42. 42
    maryedith
    Posted June 27, 2012 at 10:10 am

    @kthxy, I was going a little crazy trying to work out how different Travellers and Romany are, and I really thank you for clearing that up! To be honest, I’m interested in the fake Gypsies on this shit show. There’s obviously some connection to the Gypsy community there, and I would like to know how they got to be on the outside of it. And some of the women, for all their tawdriness, have a kind of honesty to them. Like the one who said she was OCDC about cleaning. The one who helped the Gorger girl find a dress — I think she’s real. I guess we’ll never know.

43. 43
    kthxbai
    Posted June 29, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    @maryedith You know what? You’re right. And I should totally apologize to @Pollyanna and also to myself. For being so busy being disgruntled but entertained anyway. That I didn’t even think about the people on it also counting as an interesting group. Much less 1 that’s growing. And that we’ll all be seeing more of than regular Gypsies.

    That Truth About Travellers show @labowner told us about got me to thinking about it too. Here’s a youtube link with 5 parts and another 1 with 4 parts. (they might overlap some. I haven’t watched all 9 yet)

    Anyway there was this old summer teeth guy on there. Saying how he could make all these different kinds of things. But 1 thing he couldn’t make was $. That show’s from the UK. But you can hear a lot non Gypsies in the USA saying the same thing too. Just in different words. Because of changing times.

    Which I know isn’t really an entertainment or TV topic. But the effect on Gypsies is a Gypsy related topic. It’s not like they don’t have experience with being affected by the companies doing business. In fact they’re 1 of the groups that’s the most skilled at surviving even when they can’t get out of the way of it. After all Gypsies have been around since back when it was kings and their doings. Before the companies even started up!

    But nowadays they’ve got to figure out new ways to do it. The same as non Gypsies. Even the non Gypsies that are new to having to do it at all. For a lot of technology and other reasons. Everything from getting used to lots more of some kinds of choices and 0 of others. And less independence in trying to get by. But also more independence from their family and group support system help. To stuff like non Gypsies that are used to having $ left over after making rent call “revising down.”

    And updating work ethic ideals like “work hard and get ahead” to mean getting ahead in being proud you worked hard. Not getting more $.

    @KartofflMuter Mixing with non Gypsies has always been 1 thing that’ll get them out the quickest. Specially if they marry 1. And settling. If they were with a travelling group.

    At 1st I thought that 16 yr girl that left her husband was probably how the Nettie Nookie group came to split off. But then reading about her mom being a stripper in the past, I changed my mind. Now my guess is that it probably started with her mom getting mixed up with at least 1 non Gypsy.

    And now they’ve pretty much made their own group. Which all goes right back to that long ass pain pill enhanced reply to @maryedith right above this.

    @maryedith Which episode do you mean about helping find the dress?

    If it was the 1 in the Murphy Village area does anybody know if that was Bill’s sister? Because I don’t remember. Or if they ever even told us. Much less if she’s whole or half etc. But either way, she’d still be the daughter of a non Traveller. Or the daughter of somebody that had a baby with a 1. And the sister of a half Traveller.

    So it’d make sense if she signed up. Even though we didn’t see any aunties and cousins etc from Bill’s mama’s side of the family at all.

44. 44
    snowshoecat
    Posted July 3, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    Polly, are you going to ‘cap that miserable excuse for a show that was the Stanley Sisters? I watched that and the “wrap-up” of the MBFAGW (which I finally turned off in sheer disgust) and found that I had wasted nearly two hours of my valuable young(ish) life. I feel so used. Now I think we can say for sure that we’ve been conned by sort-kinda-gypsies who are in fact, hiiljacks lookin’ fer a buck.

    Thank you for a fun one and only season.

45. 45
    kthxbai
    Posted July 6, 2012 at 1:33 am

    @snowshoecat MBFAGW’s been renewed for a season 2. Almost as soon as the 1st episode aired.

    I missed the Stanley Sisters premiere. I’m excited to see it though. With my improved attitude of watching it for trashiness content only reasons. Plus at least they didn’t put the word “Gypsy” in the title.
    I bet if they’d swapped it out for “trashy” in MBFAGW we’d have enjoyed it lots more!

46. 46
    KartofflMuter
    Posted July 6, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Did anyone notice they sort of skated over the fact that some of these great weddings only lasted 1 month? I’d like to know just what percentage end up that way. Do you think the dressmaker knows? Maybe she makes divorce bling for parties. One thing’s for sure. These are NOT gypsies. I have a small library of books on gypsies dating back to the 70′s and these hillbilly wannabes do not.The first book I grabbed was by Jan Yoors. The last ones were fom Anne Rice’s private collection. If you haven’t seen Latcho Drom-it’s a movie -I saw it in a theatre and bought it and have the cd but it was available free on Youtube. It’s wonderful. I’ve seen Gypsies in India and Hungary,etc,pictures of them in my mother’s photo album from 1920-1930, (they look a lot like my husband’s cousins and uncles,face and dress) and ran into the community in Seattle. I can’t even feel sorry forry these people. They deserve what they get. Literally,trailer trash.They create nothing. They have no dream.
    Compare them to The Gypsy Kings as role models. Ya think this bunch has ever even heard of them? They’d call them posers and fakes and liars is my best guess. Everybody but them. G-d forbid they discover the “true” gypsies on the Hollywood stroll and all get arrested while reminiscing about the “good old days” and swapping fashion tips.