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Thursday, September 20, 2012
3:08 pm
78 Comments
78 Comments
Oh Boy I totally failed in Fantasy Survivor too! Whatever happened to the Survivor staple of giving the first boot to one of the women who dares to be over 35? Damn you Debbie and Lisa, you sneaky, elimination dodging minxes!
As much as I want to root for Lisa, she should have known for the reason Luke stated above that she would be a target going in. So, why the hell didn’t she learn how to build a fire before she left? Dumbass.
Also, I am okay with people returning who had been evacauted for medical reasons, but Penner? He was evacuated during his SECOND chance, and IIRC (I could be wrong about this point, I don’t remember that season very well) his only friend left was Eliza and his boot was eminent anyway. What about that chick who broke her wrist on the first episode last season?
This season seems like they came up with the premise to get Colton back, who was an awful, awful person but great tv, but for some reason couldn’t get him and decided to roll with it anyway.
Thank you for the picture of Colton on the ground in pain. That was wonderful to see again. I’m looking forward to the recap.
I can’t do puzzles. / Ssssssh. You’re doing the puzzle.
Russell better shut up & settle down.
This is the first time watching Survivor in like 6 years. Looking foward to it, I had to fill the reality show void in my life
Go Blair, I mean, Lisa!
Russell looks like some kind of rastafarian GiJoe . . . great body. Wish the face and attitude matched it tho.
Mike was seeming “off” to me, but I’ll wait to comment.
Lisa, who I liked, was a bit wistful considering the circumstances.
Oh yea, and now there’s three immunity idols out the gate! sigh . . .
Potty, yay!!! I’m so happy to be on a show you’re cappin’ Go get ‘em Grrrl!!!!
Lisa? Rilly? I’m so in. Too bad they couldn’t get Colton, though, great tv.
I’m meh about Russell’s body. He has a little toddler-esque potbelly.
Late breaking news: Lisa’s long-time marriage crashed and burned about a week before she left for Survivor. It will be interesting to see if she even mentioned it while shooting and how it will affect her game.
Sooooo glad Colon isn’t back. Any season they’re stupid enuf to bring him back will be a season that I won’t watch. (But I’ll still read Potty’s recaps of it.)
Are we going to have to endure a season of Jeff kissing Skupin’s ass? And calling him Skupkin for that matter.
Too early to form too many opinions but I already want the loud mouth girl with skimpy bras out. She irritated me from the start.
Ha Ha Cha Cha! Good looking out! I came here to post this;
http://wonderwall.msn.com/tv/lisa-whelchel-is-divorced-1706858.story
She already has a story out in the tabs. (check)
She mentioned her charity and how really important she is to the charity the minute she got on camera. (check)
She acted all humble and said she wasn’t going to tell folks that she was on tv. (check, but you were full of shit) Did I say check?
She looks tan and rested from a nice divorce. She certainly isn’t the lone Survivor from what I can see. If she was, she would certainly have a better story to tell to the tabloids. She would have waited a bit and they would have paid more for the story about how she won Survivor..
Instead of a piece of shit article about how her marriage collapsed. JMO.
BTW, What was the charity? I can’t remember cuz she was too busy talking about herself and God!
God, she bothers me!
Do something about it!
“Potty, yay!!! I’m so happy to be on a show you’re cappin’ Go get ‘em Grrrl!!!!’
I am Happy too! Gonna be a good season.
Now, Juddfan, will you please join us?
I almost wrote words to the tune of Hank Williams Jr. “Are You Ready For Some Football” to entice you..but it sounded stupid. Fantasy Survivor had too many syllables.
TC, Robin
I forgot I joined the Fantasy Survivor team and hope I remember my password! I’m looking forward to this season and pottymouth’s recaps.
Ugh. Lisa can go any time. She writes and lectures her ‘advice’ on really awful and humiliating child discipline in the name of God – you know, hot sauce in the mouth, clothsepin on the tongue, making a child who forgets to clean up the dog poop run barefoot through it…and on and on. All with a heavy dose of ‘God is making me punish you dear’ thrown in. It’s beyond terrible. God preserve us from ‘creative religious child discipline’. It is never good. So….please go away now.
I like Penner. I hope he does well. I live in fear that Skupin is going to cut something off any day now and be medevac’d again.
If they had brought back Colon I would have skipped this season entirely. I have never hated a player more and not the fun to watch hate, just the hate-hate. He should slink back into his little hatefilled snotty privileged hole in the ground and stay there. But the screen grab of him writhing in pain was fun, thanks for that!
I’m with you, andyourlittledogtoo. Lisa Whelchel is an advocate for child abuse, and I’d like to see her gone. Nancy McKeon, on the other hand…
@AYLDT, thanks for the information about her advice! I was wanting to watch her humiliation in the first place; now there is even more reason. Unlike you and @ANTMf, I want her to last for a while… And suffer. Nancy was my favorite. I had such a girl-crush on her.
Wow, read an article about Lisa advocating ‘hot saucing’. Sounds like she has a few screws loose–sickening!
Do like the 3 tribe format as it keeps it interesting.
Purple Russell (so black he is purple) is annoying and should exit soon. What about Mindy Cohn? Is it true that Jo/Nancy is a lesbian?
Guy voted off last had like an IQ of 67 and was JONES-IN for a smoke as I am sure that is why he threw himself under the bus. He got in waaay over his head. No room for white trash livin on Survivor – baack to the trailer park to hit the La-Z-Boy with a six pack, carton o smokes and a fresh tat for that boy!
Here’s a link to Whelchel’s book on Amazon. The reviews give you a pretty good idea of what she’s all about.
http://www.amazon.com/Creative-Correction-Lisa-Whelchel/dp/1589971280/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
There’s tons of stuff on corporal punishment and humiliation, but this quote somehow stood out to me:
Whelchel advises readers to give their children ridiculous commands in public which they must instantly obey without asking any questions, while refusing them permission when they make requests which Whelchel herself admits are perfectly legitimate. She writes: “As we walk along together shopping, I will suddenly give them silly commands that they must obey without arguing, such as ‘Walk backward,’ or ‘Stop and touch your toes,’ or ‘Give me a kiss.’ Occasionally I’ll throw in a real command, like ‘Don’t touch that,’ or `No, you may not have an Icee.’ My favorite curve, however, is to say no to some reasonable request, like ‘May I go to the bathroom?’” (p. 138)
@ANTMfan, Whoa! Way to completely eff up your kid! Refusing permission to go to the bathroom? For no earthly reason? I knew the woman was a wacko, but I had no idea that she was a wacko who advocates sadism.
I got interested in the Lisa child discipline thread and looked up the book. It’s funny how reading some comments made me feel one way and other comments, a completely different way. I never thought I was a person easily swayed. But I did like the review by July 06 review by Shubin. I am a journalist and think you have to have all the knowledge to form opinions–so I might just buy the book and read it if I stay interested.
She advocates “hot saucing” her kids? That’s not discipline, that’s abuse.
Lisa’s rationale is all part of the christian fundamentalist ultra controlling child rearing mandate a la ‘To Train Up a Child’ for instance. You start when they are infants and work very hard to get instant and complete obedience or deliver ‘consequences’ and this includes countenance and attitude, too. The child must be subdued and joyous or they are not being obedient and pleasing to God. So you get blanket training where you put a crawling baby on a blanket and smack them when they try to crawl off of it. Or purposely put something they want to touch in front of them and tell them no and when they reach for it, smack their hands. They are going for instant and complete obedience as unto God. I come from that world. I actually sat next to a man I knew well in church one morning and as his wife held their six month old son on her lap the husband held a leather strap and whenever the baby reached for anything he would gently smack the baby with the strap. I was appalled and asked him why he was doing that. His answer was, ‘So he gets used to it.’ I said ‘But he’s just a little baby.’ And he answered, ‘He’s old enough to know right from wrong.’ It’s a whole philosophy of training children to never question or go against their parents even in thought so that they will do the same with God. The parents are as God’s agents. It’s a whole thing. So when Lisa says she makes them do stupid stuff in public that is what she is doing, training them to obey God, which for now is the same as obeying Lisa. You kinda have to be immersed in that world to get it. I never bought into it but it is very popular in very conservative fundamentalist churches. Don’t even get me started on the more severe punishments Pearl and Ezzo and others teach. Lisa is Mother Teresa next to them. But it’s all on the same continuum and for the same reasons.
So I am not feeling the Lisa love and hope she goes soon. It’s one thing to be sold a bill of goods and another to happily teach it to others.
I liked Zane. He was a funny kid and I hope his goal was to actually go home while saving face. But I think not. I will miss his antics though.
To my fellow fantasy teammates, I apologize for my atrocious scores and blame Lisa. I was counting on her to lose the challenge.
As for hot saucing a little kid, it’s too bad people like me aren’t born to people like that. I would have been swearing up a storm to get me some of that.
Aaaaaaaaaw, man. I hate to read the above comments about LW. I have a signed copy of her first book, The Facts of Life & Other Lessons My Father Taught Me (I think that’s the title. I’m too lazy to look it up). It was a little too preachy for me *but* my BFF and I, being huge Blair Warner fans, actually took an afternoon off work to go to Wal-Mart for her book signing. She was sweet and gracious and introduced her husband and kids. They were traveling the country in an RV as part of her book tour.
I would have died of embarrassment if my mother had ever expected to touch my toes anywhere outside my ballet class.
I’m shipping Lisa and Skupin…is he single?
Hot saucing your kid and making them walk through shit is not child abuse IMO….but making them believe in God? Crossing the line…
Well, judging from the number of bikini-worthy gals this season, there IS a god and it’s been reading my journal. Again.
Heh, I wrote my last comment before reading the other comments… But now that they dredged up that has-been, I hope she sticks around long enough to betray all of her “christian” principles. Because she just know she will.
I thought it was funny that the burned-hand guy was so much in awe of her. I hated that show.
Meanwhile, I’m kind of sad the tatted up trailer trash guy left. His face was fascinating — like a mirror image of his Frankenstein tat. In fact, I was hoping we could nickname him Frank for the season.
Oh well. Guess I’ll just have to console myself with looking at Miss Teen Utah. Sigh.
No lust for the brunette investment banker, itchy? Fine. She’s mine, then. All mine.
Sharing is caring, my friend.
Damn you Gasmi for making my love for all things Blair Warner dissipate with the click of a mouse following a link! DAMN YOU I SAY! Leave it to you evil geniuses to dig up the dirt before the 1st episode could even air! At least I still have Tootie, Nat, & my favorite homegirl, Jo..right?…RIGHT? They’re not leaders of some type of sister wives prostitution rings are they?? Mrs. Garret did NOT do her job properly if they are!
Russell, Russell, Russell….*sigh* At least he realized how freaking HORRIFIC his game play was early on & maybe he’ll pump the breaks because I had high hopes for him.
Am I the only one who wanted to throw something at my tv when former Miss Teen whats-her-face kept doing the childish eye rolling during council? UGH…can we at least PRETEND to be more mature than a 19yr old? Her game is going to suck if she can’t learn to hide her disgust. She was a part of the Trump Organization…she should be a pro at that shit by now!
So now that I’ve stopped rooting for Blair (she’ll always be Blair to me) I guess I can concentrate all my adoration to Penner where it belongs. Well, until he outplays himself by the 3rd episode, then Skupin will probably inadvertently neuter himself on a dull machete by episode 4 & this season will be shot straight to hell since, as cute as she is, I can’t bring myself to root for an eye-rolling, former Miss Teen anything or anyone who makes an alliance with the chick who wore a one shouldered, frilly dress to play Survivior, in the 1st 20 mins, regardless how hot her inappropriately covered boobs are (sorry Cranky but the hot chick also didn’t even blink when a core of her alliance hurt himself more the 1st day than my 10yr old accident prone, hyperactive son at a glass shard covered park).
aaahh friends. Just watched the show. Can’t make an pick yet but like Lisa & her unassuming “normal” life & have not heard about “Training your child up” but will look into it. She seems kind to me. Might be trying to find herself & get a balance with her divorce.
Live in northern Chicago suburbs & have been having multi problems with young teens/adults roaming & thieving & property damage at night. Where are their parents? Why are they such losers? Gangs fuck.
Maybe getting trained as a child with some hot sauce might have changed the sorry lot that is roaming our roads now. Fear it will only get worse.
@juddfan …. thought Mike was off too. Seemed uptight & over thinking. Hopefully will settle down & hit a groove as I like him.
Russell is doomed unless he gets his ego under control. Liked all of folks on his team so they might get it pulled together.
Thank god Coltin is not here. Really a gross , horrible, bitch that I don’t what to see again.
@crankguy….been busy so not here much but glad you are out of your quiet corner. If you want the brunette banker then throw your ring at her. Might just get a catch
.
@crockpot: I assume (?) you were speaking tongue-in-cheek, but all of the scientific data suggests that corporal punishment and humiliation make children more likely to be violent and antisocial, not less. There are plenty of ways to teach children boundaries without abusing and shaming them.
“Lisa’s rationale is all part of the christian fundamentalist ultra controlling child rearing mandate a la ‘To Train Up a Child’ for instance. You start when they are infants and work very hard to get instant and complete obedience or deliver ‘consequences’ and this includes countenance and attitude, too. The child must be subdued and joyous or they are not being obedient and pleasing to God. So you get blanket training where you put a crawling baby on a blanket and smack them when they try to crawl off of it. Or purposely put something they want to touch in front of them and tell them no and when they reach for it, smack their hands. They are going for instant and complete obedience as unto God. I come from that world. I actually sat next to a man I knew well in church one morning and as his wife held their six month old son on her lap the husband held a leather strap and whenever the baby reached for anything he would gently smack the baby with the strap. I was appalled and asked him why he was doing that. His answer was, ‘So he gets used to it.’ I said ‘But he’s just a little baby.’ And he answered, ‘He’s old enough to know right from wrong.’ It’s a whole philosophy of training children to never question or go against their parents even in thought so that they will do the same with God. The parents are as God’s agents. It’s a whole thing. So when Lisa says she makes them do stupid stuff in public that is what she is doing, training them to obey God, which for now is the same as obeying Lisa. You kinda have to be immersed in that world to get it. I never bought into it but it is very popular in very conservative fundamentalist churches. Don’t even get me started on the more severe punishments Pearl and Ezzo and others teach. Lisa is Mother Teresa next to them. But it’s all on the same continuum and for the same reasons. ”
Thanks, yourlittledogtoo.
This really made me want to cry, to be honest. Childhood is so fleeting and strapping them and humilliating on a constant basis strips away their dignity, self esteem, ability to protect themselves. Sounds like a theater shooter/killer and a Columbine candidate… WTF is wrong with these people?
This is truly the worst background of any Survivor participant.
TC, Robin
Re: Lisa Whelchel’s child discipline books, I can’t find anything referencing the humiliation tactics mentioned in that Amazon review other than that Amazon review itself. There are many, many articles that critique her advocacy for hot saucing, though. If they critique her for that, wouldn’t they also critique her for having her kids run through dog poop?
As for hot saucing, my grandmother used to wash my mother’s mouth with actual soap. Of course, my mother is 70 and spent most of her childhood working on a tobacco farm, but still, I don’t think she or any of my aunts and uncles would say they were “abused.” I’m not saying hot saucing is a good thing by any means. It’s clearly fear-based discipline, which ultimately isn’t effective and leads to negative personality traits down the line. But “child abuse” goes a little far. You can’t just throw around that term because you don’t like spanking or whatnot. And lackadaisical, appeasing, indulgent parents are just as bad as the ones who are too strict. I think the spoiled, entitled nature of today’s younger generations has a lot to do with their parents who couldn’t establish good boundaries.
Anyway, child-rearing techniques have nothing to do with Survivor so I’m going to forget about it. I’m sure some of the legendary older contestants — like former Navy SEAL Rudy Boesch from Borneo and All-Stars — had some child-rearing techniques that would make Lisa’s look tame. And I’m not going to go down the roster of former Survivors to see who spanked their kids or not. I am, however, tired of the celebrity gimmicks. It seems like half the casts these days are made up of minor celebrities, retired athletes, returning players, and relatives of former players. Throw in a pageant queen or two and you’re all set. Where are all the fans?
I liked the episode, though. A lot of the new players were playing aggressively right out of the gate. I’ll always appreciate players who form alliances and create momentum more than those who just want to fly under the radar. The location is also beautiful and we had our first legitimate water challenge since Fans vs. Favorites, so I’m stoked.
The stuntcasts and the returnees, notwithstanding, I’m actually liking what I see of this cast so far. I’m hoping to see more of Roxanne (the black girl on Russell’s team) because she seems like someone who will be the voice of the audience and, if charismatic enough, could win “America’s favorite,” even though that usually goes to the most memorable male cast member. I’m also curious to see how Dawson’s knowledge of Jeff’s identity will play out and if Jeff’s attempt to “Willie Hantz” the rest of his tribe will work before his injured knee/millionaire 1% status is exposed.
In regards to the Lisa/Blair bashers, I don’t see how the personal issues brought up have any impact on how the rest of her cast view her. She is the “older lady” and at a disadvantage because of that. I’m curious to see if Skupin will roll with the younger crowd or Lisa/older black guy whose name no one knows.
Why does Probst annoying act like he knows no one’s name on the first day, yet, somehow learns them by the start of the first challenge? He’s annoying and his talk show is fairly awful. But, we’ll see which guy gets the last name treatment by the end of the season, because that guy will probably return in a future season.
And, finallly, because I have a small crush, can we start the Malcolm is gay rumors?
pretty good year,
It is the humilating scenarios that she cooks up in her head that bother me. “Touch your toes”!!!! Give me a kiss!!! Drop and give me twenty!!!!”
I am sure that when your Grandmother put soap in your mouth you probably either cursed, or mouthed off. Your action caused a consequence. Therein lies the difference.
When these kids are just going about life as best they can and all of the sudden this crazy bitch wants them to touch their toes; they are suffering a consequence at the mercy of her. For no reason there is a consequence. And to me, thats abuse.
TC, Robin
Hi,
I don’t know why I had it in my head that there wouldn’t be a reward! Maybe not a reward challenge, but certainly a reward even if they combined immunity and reward (like they did). They ALWAYS give them SOMETHING to begin with. Mainly flint, etc so that the other tribe(s)is challenged without it. Darnnit. I kept thinking food and knew they wouldn’t give them a WELCOME feast, and I said if they did I would be hard to deal with this season..well, they didn’t give them a feast, but did you notice they had coconuts and bananas for the taking? Right off the bat? And Chickens!!!!!
Ok, I know that The Hantz is a touchy subject for some and I promise not to bring him up very much; but I think Zane reminded most folks of Hantz and it was the reason he left. Hell, I liked Hantz (Russell) and he looked like a wannabe version.
I am glad that I picked Mike as my MVP. I see that alot of folks picked Jonathan. I almost picked him. I will see how Mike does, if he starts to wimp out on me, I may change my mind. He did freak out about a cut on his foot..
Speaking of Wimps! That Baseball player sure is a crybaby! He whined the whole damn show. Maybe if he got in shape before he got there he might not be so soft. I am sure he is familiar with training camp!
Not sure about RC. Not really. I don’t like her. She is obnoxious. But not in a good way.
OK, Thats all I can think of so far. Thanks to everyone for joining and participating in TVGasm Fantasy Survivor. We are going to have a blast!
TC, Robin
Malcom Is Gay!
Robin: It wasn’t my mouth, it was my mother’s back when she was a child. My mother, ever the schoolteacher, had me write lines whenever I cursed or lied.
Anyway, I haven’t read Lisa’s book, obviously. I was just saying that the extreme humiliation tactics mentioned previously haven’t shown up in any critiques — and there are several critiques — except for the one from that single Amazon reviewer. I’m familiar enough with evangelical culture to have heard of Michael Pearl and Debi Pearl, though, and I know their whole shtick is obedience for obedience’s sake. I know several parents like that. Even if they don’t use physical force or humiliation, they still want their children to obey any command just because they say so, and that leads to kids who are perfect little angels around their parents and hellions everywhere else. As a schoolteacher myself, I’ve met several children like that. It’s quite frustrating.
Back to the show, there was a reward. The tribe that came in first in the Immunity challenge got a complete fire-starting kit, while the following tribe just got flint to go along with their Immunity. Grabbing the supplies off the boat is a very old school Survivor tradition, so I’m glad they brought that back. They marooned the contestants the exact same way in Borneo, Marquesas, Pearl Islands and Cook Islands. I liked it. It felt a lot more exciting than just rafting to shore or grabbing stuff off a truck like last season. I’ll always have a soft spot for helicopter drop-offs, though. Heroes vs. Villains and Redemption Island were the best.
Zane did remind me of Russell Hantz. I don’t think he left for that reason, though. I think he left because he tried to make an alliance with everyone, and on a tribe that small that’s just a bad idea. People are going to talk to each other. Plus, he had to be dragged across the finish line in the challenge and then asked to be voted out. Can’t say I’ll miss him.
I surprisingly liked Angie. I don’t usually like pageant queens and I think it’s hilarious that Jeff Probst already hates her, but I was expecting her to be Purple Kelly and she actually has a bit of Parvati in her. She’s adorable, doesn’t seem to be complaining about the elements and was dead-on in her critique of Russell. Why in the world would you put the pageant queen on the puzzle? She knew she would suck, she told him she would suck and, to no one’s surprise, she sucked. It’s like Russell was trying to set her up to be the first boot, but Zane asking to be voted out saved her butt. I hope she joins up with Malcolm and Denise because I’m not a big fan of Russell this season, despite liking him in Samoa.
R.C. is hilariously obnoxious, though. She reminds me of Eliza and, much like Eliza, I predict she’ll either be blindsided just before the finals or right at the merge. Either way, I can’t wait!
Also, Malcolm is gay? How do you know? More importantly, why would that matter?
Never mind, I didn’t see Derek’s comment. I’m completely fine with those rumors. I think Peter’s the one to watch out for in that area, though. His, “Abi-Maria is hot” line didn’t seem very genuine…
“Back to the show, there was a reward. The tribe that came in first in the Immunity challenge got a complete fire-starting kit, while the following tribe just got flint to go along with their Immunity. Grabbing the supplies off the boat is a very old school Survivor tradition, so I’m glad they brought that back. ”
I was referring to my dumb pick on Fantasy Survivor. I didn’t think there would be a reward! I have been watching too long to know not to do that! They always give folks stuff. I just had it in my head that they were going to treat them like they did in the earlier season(s). I was disapointed when I saw fruit and chickens. For goodness sakes it is survivor. I wanna see skinny people that still have to have their wits about them while they are fighting to eat..
TC, and Thank Goodness for Good Teachers.
Robin
As someone who is old enough to have had his mouth “washed” with soap more than a c ouple of times, I can assure you this taught me nothing at all about obedience and respect — quite the contrary. If nothing else, the only thing I learned was a very healthy disrespect for authority.
Fortunately for me my mother eventually discovered Gordon and the whole parent effectiveness training school, which is a far better way to raise human beings (and I’m willing to bet that very few children raised the “Gordon way” are out on the street vandalizing other peoples’ property).
I read quite a number of those Amazon reviews — including the positive reviews. And it’s pretty clear that this woman is a horribly abusive hypocrite who is only encouraging people to be equally horrible human beings — while raising horribly “obedient” children who will inevitably become horrible, abusive hypocrites.
But then, all religious inculcation of children is a form of child abuse to one degree or another. Willingly raising your children within a lie? Just to manipulate them and maintain control over them?
I’ll be curious to see how this idiot bitch handles the younger people on her tribe — some of them are quite young: will she start using some of her brainwashing and manipulation tactics on them?
At any rate, now while we’re watching her play this meek, shy, quiet “older” woman on the show, we know it’s a fucking act. Because that’s all she is — an actress. Underneath that exterior she’s a monster, a beast, pure evil.
@Itchy, you stated two very good reasons for Lisa’s staying on the show. I was just wanting her to get a taste of her own hot sauce, but seeing how she interacts with/tries to manipulate others (of any age) will be interesting.
Robin: In the earlier seasons they gave them stuff, too. The boat at the start of the first season, Borneo, was loaded with supplies and they had a few minutes to get everything and jump overboard. I thought doing the same thing in Philippines was a nice little tribute to that. Besides, it’s not like the melons and bananas they salvaged are going to last too long.
itchy: I guess you must not like any of the Christian contestants, then? Roxanne is a seminary student and Dawson said in interviews that she used to be a street evangelist — she’s still a devout Adventist. Michael is also a Christian motivational speaker and minister. I mean, I wasn’t a fan of South Pacific and Coach’s “God warrior” alliance was a big reason why, but I still think it’s wrong to stereotype or judge a group of people due to their faith.
You may think it’s a lie, but if it’s a lie that obviously many adults in this world believe wholeheartedly, how are they “willingly” raising their children within it? Aren’t they just teaching their children their worldview, and doesn’t every parent do that, believer or not?
Can’t argue about the shame and humiliation stuff, though. I’m old enough to have been spanked occasionally, sent to bed without dessert, have my toys confiscated, not be allowed to watch cartoons, etc. But it was always a punishment for actual wrongdoing, not a test or a “training session,” and it never crossed the line into humiliation or shame. My folks were strict but they were also pretty traditional, and my siblings and I all turned out pretty well, if I say so myself. I think the whole industry behind parenting is baloney, anyway. People did it well for generations without the constant stream of books, seminars and instructional videos they have now. It’s kind of silly.
@prettygoodyear – you said everything I was thinking only you did it much better.
No, no, no, I’m not against christians, I’m scornful of all religions equally. But as long as these people aren’t shilling their religion on a reality television show, I don’t care what they do in their personal life.
Besides, I too am religious.
In my religion, I have bee taught to believe I am a descendant of an alien race brought to earth by God in order to dominate and conquer the human animal, who are, to us, no better (but much tastier!) than cattle or chicken. According to my holy text, which was to delivered to the prophet of my religion many hundreds of years ago, I am not only allowed to eat human flesh but I am REQUIRED to eat human flesh in order to fulfill all of the commandments my god has given us, as written in our sacred text.
You cannot tell me my beliefs are not true, because my bible specifically tells me that everything I believe is true – and also that anyone who disagrees with me are agents of evil and must be consumed in order to purify the world (and my own soul).
I also know that there are those who would attempt to convince me – by persuasion, by mockery, by force – that my beliefs are untrue. These people have been placed before me by God in order to test my faith. And the more my faith is tested, the more solid I become (partly because I eat those people too).
Of course, I know you respect my right to my beliefs and my right to practice my religion as I see fit. And I thank you for that.
Now. Please pass the salt.
“Dawson said in interviews that she used to be a street evangelist — she’s still a devout Adventist. ”
As in Seventh Day Adventist? I never learn all the names this early in, so I don’t know who Dawson is, but if she is a devout Adventist, I wonder what she is gonna do about eating “unclean” meat and playing/working on Sabbaths. I have always wondered how “devout” Christians can rationalize even going on these reality shows in the first place since they have to know that they will inevitably face a choice of either breaking the tenets of their faith or being kicked off.
itchy: Yes, yes, yes, you’re a prototypical Internet atheist. We get it. I don’t really care what other people believe as long as they don’t use their beliefs to try to justify harming another person. If your faith inspires you to help others, love your neighbor and work for a better tomorrow, more power to you! If it inspires you to judge, mistreat or hurt others, then you suck at life. Of course, many nonreligious people also judge, mistreat and hurt others. That personality type transcends religion.
I also don’t mind if religious people want to talk about their faith, because if you believe in something — whether it’s religion, politics or your favorite movie — that usually requires you to try and persuade others about it (see: your entire last post). How you go about that is the key. Coach and Brandon’s abusive use of religion in South Pacific? Gross, uncomfortable and pathetic. Matt’s use of his faith to give him strength on Redemption Island? Interesting and human, and not offensive at all. The differences are in the details. Survivor is best when it shows a wide variety of American life, and that should include atheists like Sophie and Christians like Lisa.
@itchy, if you apply to Survivor as a devout practitioner of a religion like THAT, I bet you would be a shoo-in. Cannibalism on Survivor — ratings gold!
crankyguy: Dawson is the woman on the red team who immediately knew who Jeff Kent was. Yes, she’s SDA. She’s actually from the Baltimore-Washington area which has a sizable SDA community. I want to ask some of my Adventist friends around here about it. She said she’s a vegetarian, which isn’t too uncommon on Survivor and shouldn’t be too difficult to manage on a diet of rice and coconut. She seems really cool in her interviews and her behind-the-scenes clip on the CBS website is very charming. She’s such an enthusiastic fan but she doesn’t give me Cochran vibes.
I don’t see what moral dilemma Christians would face on Survivor. I don’t believe in lying or being ruthlessly competitive, either, but a game is a game and real life is real life. Most people can separate the two. I also think there is a way to play Survivor in a straightforward, honest fashion if that’s important to you — win challenges, be the majority tribe at the merge, pick off the other tribe, etc. — but I really only save my ire for players who go on and on about “integrity” and “honor” when they are on a freaking game show. That kind of delusional thinking isn’t limited to Christian players. Rupert, after all, would be the most obvious, and annoying, example.
@pretty good year, thanks for identifying Dawson. I know who she is now. Yeah, a run of good luck could get a Christian through the game without too much damage to his or her integrity, but odds are against that. All it would take in Dawson’s case is one of the eating-gross-critters challenges and there is still that Sabbath thing for SDAs and religious Jews. And maybe I’m nitpicking here, but even the fact that she knew who the baseball player is strikes me as a little odd since most SDAs tend to have an aversion to celebrity worship.
crankyguy: She said she was friends with (or dated, I can’t quite remember which) a guy who was a baseball fanatic. That’s how she knew about Jeff Kent. Don’t know about the Sabbath thing, though. I was raised in a very liberal Christian church and I’m pretty apathetic these days, but to my knowledge most Protestants and Catholics just don’t work a job on Sundays, but even in the Bible Jesus Christ says it’s okay to work if you have to (Mark 2:23-28). Not sure if there are any Sabbath beliefs specific to the SDA faith that go above and beyond that. I should probably do more research. They’re a very interesting group to me.
Gross food challenges would indeed be a problem, but we haven’t had one of those since Samoa! Much like water challenges, they’re a staple that I hope comes back this season. I remember way back in Australia there was a vegetarian named Kimmi who refused to eat a cow brain in a gross food challenge and lost her tribe a point. She did earn them a point later on when she ate a worm or something, though. Then a few episodes later she got into a legendary fight with Alicia over killing the chickens they had won in a challenge.
I don’t know. I like it when a player’s values come into conflict with the game. That was the original premise of the show, wasn’t it? How far will you go for a million dollars? It’s very old school Survivor when moral dilemmas are a part of the mix and I prefer that kind of drama and tension to players who just kind of dominate the game in a detached, emotionless manner like a sociopath (looking at you, Kim).
@pretty good year, my dad had to go to church on Saturdays and Sundays because his mom was Baptist and his dad was SDA. The combination made him non-religious as an adult. Anyway, SDAs take the Sabbath very seriously as you would expect given their name, although SDA farmers can tend to the needs of their animals on the Sabbath and similarly for doctors and nurses. But, most would feel that God does not give an special dispensation for SDAs to break the Sabbath because they choose to go on reality TV.
*any special dispensation
Um, I’m an atheist in real life, if that helps any.
As for Survivor being a game and not real life — that works if you’re an atheist, I suppose, since you’re not trying to perform to a set of god-given rules. I suppose it works too if you’re not particularly religious, even if you still identify with a particular religion.
It doesn’t work, however, if you claim to be more than that (i.e., a minister, a ‘devout’ Adventist, etc.) and especially if you’re adhere to a religion that claims to be more. In that case, you’re placing yourself at a higher standard of behavior — regardless of what situation you’re in. In fact especially because of the situation you’re in.
It’s easy to walk the talk when you’re safely ensconced in on the plush seats of your local megachurch. It’s quite another thing to hold onto your value system in the jungle.
But okay. I’ll tell you what. I’ll lay off the anti-religion chatter — unless of course one of the contestants on the show starts blathering on about it.
The only thing I ask in exchange is that your read the Richard Dawkins book, The God Delusion. It’s a great read.
itchy: I’ve read it. I read pretty much everything. Dawkins is a douche, though. Of course, that has everything to do with his personality and writing style, not his atheism or his advocacy for atheism. I couldn’t care less about that. Like I said, I’m apathetic. Believe what you want to believe. Just don’t use it to justify poor treatment of others.
I don’t agree that Christians on Survivor are inherently holding themselves to a higher standard, though. Most people use religion as a system of morality. Both the Christian and the atheist want to be healthy, happy, honest, loyal people in their everyday lives. Neither would think twice about, say, bluffing during a card game. Why should they think twice about bluffing on Survivor? It’s just a game, and it’s possible to lie without belittling people like, say, Russell Hantz did. My main problem with Coach wasn’t that he lied while being a Christian, it’s that he bullied and judged people.
I think if an atheist — or just your average secular, apathetic, nonreligious person — went on Survivor and held the Christian players to a higher standard, that would be pretty sad. That would just conform to the stereotype that we’re somehow less moral than religious people. Lisa said in an interview that she knew she might have to check certain aspects of her faith at the door, and I respect that. I don’t respect when players bring up “integrity” in a game that is built around scheming and backstabbing. If they do that, then I think it’s okay to call someone out on their hypocrisy.
How does one “check certain aspects of one’s faith at the door”? Either you believe or you don’t believe. Obviously I have no problem with people not believing. And I’m not holding anyone to a higher standard, on the contrary (I believe I’ve made my contempt for religiosity quite clear). I’m only suggesting these people are placing themselves on a higher standard by pretending to follow what they pretend to believe.
The whole “it’s just a game” thing doesn’t wash. Show me another game where cheating/lying etc. is considered an acceptable form of game-play. There is nothing in the Survivor rule book that stipulates that players must lie, cheat, deceive, etc. That some players do this is purely their choice. Pretending that somehow the game absolves them of the responsibility for their choices is absurd. If one can’t play Survivor without betraying one’s most cherished principles — then why go on the show?
True, the whole backstabbing, lying, thing makes for more entertaining television, I suppose. And I agree, I much prefer players embrace wholeheartedly their choice — which is why I always get disgusted when the bible-thumpers reveal themselves as the nastiest of the bunch.
And I’m not so sure about the idea of calling a truly brilliant scholar “a douche.” No one’s asking him to be a warm and cuddly guy, although I don’t know him personally, I can’t really speak to his personality. But his ideas are solid.
Well, it’s debatable whether his ideas are solid. Secularism isn’t exactly a unified philosophy — nor should it be — and I think his approach probably does more harm than good for the causes he says he supports, but that’s really not the right discussion for this kind of board.
As for Christians and lying on Survivor, what I mean is that I also think it’s morally wrong to lie, cheat and betray trust, but I’d still do those things on a game show like Survivor or Big Brother and I don’t think my secularism should be used as the reason for why that’s okay. Just because I don’t think God commanded my morality doesn’t make my morality any more fluid than a Christian’s. Does that make sense? I think that was mainly what I objected to in your comment. The religious moralists and the zealots like to argue that us nonreligious folk are a bunch of shallow moral relativists and I generally don’t like to prove them right.
And I still think a lot of players — religious or not — go onto Survivor hoping they won’t have to lie. Like I said earlier, if you just want to win a bunch of challenges and Pagong the other tribe, you don’t have to deceive at all. Sophie from South Pacific is an atheist and I don’t think she had to lie or stab anyone in the back. She was in the majority alliance from Day 1 and rode that all the way to the end without even attempting to string along the players in the minority. And she won because she was next to two goats. If you’re lucky, that’s all you have to do.
Wow this is too deep for me. I thought we were talking about an abusive, crazy bitch and spreading a rumor that Malcom is Gay..
Although I did like the idea of “Cannibalism Survivor”. I have always been outspoken about the fact that they give those people TOO MUCH FOOD.
TC, Robin
How does a person “cheat” on Survivor? I’m pretty sure the only instance of actual cheating happened way back in Australia, when someone smuggled in a candy bar–and didn’t that person get booted for it?
@itchy, I kind of think you’re being a little unfair to Lisa at this point of the game, since it’s only Day 3 and she hasn’t tried to manipulate anyone due to her religiosity.
Saw some interesting interviews last week. One had Lisa on talking about how she prepped for the show. She trained at swimming with Navy Seals so she would be good at swimming distances or holding her breath under water while trying to untie or move stuff. She also knew her age would put her at a disadvantage, people would see her age and assume she was weak. To combat that she purchased a t-shirt off Ebay that said “2010 Such and Such County Triathalon” (can’t remember the exact name). She figured she’d wear that during some of the press stuff when they are all together, before they go off to the island so they’d see that and draw the conclusion that she was physically fit.
Like her or not, that’s pretty smart planning.
In another interview, Penner (love him!) said he gained 40 lbs on purpose before going on. He knew that you lose on average a pound a day on Survivor, and he wanted to be sure he wasn’t losing muscle right off the bat. He ate and worked out so he would be strong and bulky so that losing the weight wouldn’t weaken him too badly.
I love that kind of background stuff.
@TinkerB, #66 hey! What a great idea. Gonna get me a Memsa T-shirt so peeps will think I’m smart.
TinkerbellAPixie,
I love that kind of background stuff, too. Thanks.
Robin
Snowshoe, lol….might even be more effective if you got a MENSA one. lol
Derek,
She talked about religion in the water with the other girls and within mins of her camera time, she talked about her “Charity”.
She is working it.
TC, Robin
@Robin, I didn’t really see Lisa saying to RC that she runs a ministry at her church as a career equates to manipulation on her part. Also, if she is manipulating her tribe, shouldn’t she be closer with the majority of her tribe mates than she actually is? If she was just Lisa Smith, and not a former child actress, Mike Skupin wouldn’t be interested in keeping her around at all. I have a feeling that she’ll likely be the first boot on the Yellow Team, if they ever go to TC.
“@Robin, I didn’t really see Lisa saying to RC that she runs a ministry at her church as a career equates to manipulation on her part.”
I disagree. Only because of the timing. If she had mentioned it on the second, third or fourth day even, I might agree with you.
She could not wait to speak about her “Ministry of Toe Touching Humiliation”. She brought it up immediately and I have a feeling she meant it as a sort of manipulation. Kinda like when she makes her kids do stupid stuff in stores. Cuz she can.
TC, Robin
She is
Itchy, I’m with you re: religion.
But you’re sprewing some pretty aggressive hate towards Lisa and I’m wondering what you’re basing this on? Her parenting style? Her religious beleifs?
Also, your avatar freaks me out.
@ Derek: I’m not being unfair. I read the reviews of her book, and that’s all I need to fuel my contempt for her as a parent — not simply as a reality show contestant. It doesn’t help matters, of course, that’s she’s another leech making her living selling her religion.
I don’t personally have a problem with lying in the context of this show — mostly because I recognize the difference between a small lie and a big one, and this show is all about small lies that have no consequence outside of the show itself.
On the other hand, I tend to have more respect for people who can navigate the show WITHOUT lying — because that’s the most difficult strategy to pull off.
ooooooohhhhh, now I see where all the hot sauce talk came from. Haven’t finished all these comments, but I went to the link too, and this lady . . . is it me, or does this sound like the mother from Carrie:
Hot sauce on the toungue is not abuse! The Bible says, The Lord detests lying lips.
Lying is a sin. And it needs to be corrected. Does anyone mention she uses Bible verses after punishment is doled out? Does anyoned mention that she also prays with her children to ask for forgiveness? And does anyone mention that she gives affirmation of how much she and God loves them?
Religion aside, coz I don’t try to control what people choose to believe, but I do believe in human rights and decency . . . total obedience, and pursuing it in such a sick manner is just not right in the head. Children are not your little slaves or objects to dominate and manipulate . . . they are human beings.
I do enjoy some crazy, so perhaps, hearing Lisa go on about some of her opinions might be entertaining. I don’t even hit my cats tho, so hot saucing and blindfolding and hand cuffing for any reason are all beyond the pale . . . CPS should look into “christian” child rearing techniques . . . I thought Jesus was about loving and acceptance, and turning the other cheek . . . not sick little games to manipulate little minds. Also, if I saw a guy hitting a baby with a belt, I would personally call CPS. What is with people!?
Ok, with that off my chest, I will head back to the whirlwind above!
@ Robin, I’m sorry I can’t do fantasy survivor, but I will be here with y’all!
@crockpot: Glad it’s not just me . . . he was sadly reminding me of someone I know who just acts crazy for the sake of it. No matter what you expect, you will get the opposite, so if people really start warning him and he keeps getting more reckless, that’s the behavior I mean, and it annoys me to no end!!! That foot wound was deep and gross and not something that will heal in two minutes either!
oh Itchy . . . you somehow always get into these religious debates. Hate Lisa if you like . . . For me, it’s more like pity. It seems a weak person would resort to such controlling things to feel more powerful. It’s just really sad to use your kids to fulfill what you lack, and that can go many ways about many things, and I know some of it can’t be helped.
Playing mind games can be controlled tho . . . putting a clothespin on the end of a tongue . . . really . . . I could never do such a thing, no matter how pissed I was at something or someone . . . ew!!! Why do I picture her on the steps with a cookie, calling for Sybil, then pulling it away and tripping her, and cackling with her head flung back.
Lastly, see . . . if Lisa wan’t here, we wouldn’t have almost 80 comments! LOL!!!
“Robin: In the earlier seasons they gave them stuff, too”
I appreciate it when they give them tools to make the process smoother and I pay attention to how some folks are able to adapt and use these tools.
What I do not like is when they are given food, constantly!
In want someone to drop their drawers into the drinking water…
TC, Robin
Time has been cruel to that homophobic bigot Lisa Welchel.
Well, I guess there really is a God.