Hmm, surprise surprise, a big argument about Europe and they're going over there...

It's usually very easy to tell which Americans have actually left the country at least once in their lives, and the vast majority who haven't ever seen past their own country line.

You really just have to accept the fact that things really are that much different when you leave the US's navel-gazing behind you, if only for a little while. You know, the rest of the world IS different. Different is good. Okay? Get over it.

I had to laugh when Sheena brought up the good guys vs bad guys thing, since she's the Queen of Evil (well, okay, Ignorant Idiocracy). And every time I start wondering if Sam has at least part of a brain, she goes and opens her mouth...I sort of feel sorry for McKey, but what do you expect from a kickboxer? Took a few too many to the head, that one.

Besides, both Madge (who was sabotaged with that stupid dress--who would put something like that on an Olive Oyl figure like hers?) and Elina have been pretty clear that they were raised by domineering, control-freak parents --so regardless of how much time they've been in the States, they've been subjected to that. And no doubt, neither of them have any idea of what Europe is really like either, only through the filter of their own fruit-loop parents.

Food for thought. In the meantime, I continue to savor Analeigh...

Oops, that was supposed to read 'county' line...way to step on yer own punchline...

Oh yeah, and I ought to point out that I really enjoy reading your recaps, Hoolia! Hope the girls are keeping warm!

Love the recap, but I have to disagree with you regarding the Europe thing with Marge and Elina. As an American living in Europe, it really IS different. And why would you expect Marge and Elina to act the same when one is from France and the other is from Russia? Those two countries are VERY different! VERY! And for those who spout the argument that because they were in America for so long that they shouldn't be affected by being from Europe, I have this to say: Their parents still raised them. They didn't get sent to American parents. If I was to be raising a child here, I would still be raising them in an American way because I am an American and that is my culture. They would be raised with my style of cooking, religion, speaking, etc. And with regards to Ms. Hooch... I don't see ANYTHING of her original culture. She acts like she picked everything up from the streets.

I too agree that Europeans are VERY different from Americans, but have you ever met a French person as uptight and nervous as Marjorie? There's no way she can blame her anxiety and her lack of confidence on the most arrogant and morally relaxed culture in the universe!

I think Elina's stuff has to do more with having a psycho control freak mother than being Russian IMO.

AMSTERDAM BABY!

Oh, here4beer, I live in France, and really, people here are just...well...they're just normal people. Don't believe all that 'freedom fry' nonsense. There's nothing at all arrogant or morally relaxed about the "culture" (although what would be wrong with that anyway? it works for the States).

Like I said, it really really helps to leave the States once in a while. You'll see that there's a whole wide world there. And we don't even need to drop bombs on them all.

I do agree though that Madge gets really annoying with all that gawkiness and whinery. Hope they boot her off soon.

Elina's hot though. She can stick around.

Oh my gosh, I am sooooo happy Joslyn went home. Tyra seriously faked me out. I was like NOOOOOOO but then I realized Elina made it through and I started screaming [in happiness]. I seem to hate Sam more and more with each episode, ditto Sheena. I'm sick of everyone saying what a great personality she has. She's loud, obnoxious and I loved your comment about her constantly looking like she's giving a bj.
Also, has anyone else heard rumours that McKey, Samantha and Sheena will be in the top 3? 'Cuz I have, and if they're true I need to stop watching right now.

Itchy - I agree that McKey sometimes acts like she got kicked in the head one too many times. I feel like we hardly know anything about her/hear from her, and I can't tell if that's because she's getting the winners edit (and we'll find out more about her in later eps) or if she really is just all air up there.

Snootchy Bootches - When I was in Italy I was working as a nanny for an American family, so I've seen firsthand that while yes, the kids were primarily American (due to being raised by American parents and an American nanny), they also picked up a lot of attitudes, behaviors, mannerisms, etc. of the Italian bambinos. I've got to respectfully disagree with you and echo itchy's sentiment - I think the way that they are is a result of uptight parents. But yes, Sheena is clearly an example of someone who doesn't appear to have retained any sense of her mother's culture, but she could very well act one way when she's out in the American world and act another way at home with her family. I actually had an Asian friend in high school who basically lived a double life - total wild child the second she stepped out of the house, studied her butt off and was polite and respectful the second she kicked off her shoes inside. The parents had no idea. Go figure.

here4beer - With Elina it's definitely the control freak mother. The thing that baffles me is that I know my own mother can tend to be controlling and while I've definitely picked up some Type A tendencies from her, I think I'm only like 1/10 as uptight as she is. So if the same proportion holds true for Elina, I shudder to think of just how domineering her mother must be.

alex_w - I have NOT heard those rumors and pray they're not true. There's no way that Sheena could win this, absolutely no way. I really liked Sam initially but agree that she's testing my patience as the season progresses. I'd be happy with McKey winning and I think if she can manage to rock a second commercial shoot, she'd have this one in the bag.

Ugh this season would be so much more fun if I was legit rooting for someone so I wouldn't have to sit here and wallow in my indifference.

A QUESTION THAT I FORGOT TO POST AT THE END OF THIS RECAP: How on Earth do we think Tyra's going to manage to butcher a Dutch accent? Because I know she'll find a way. Is she just going to stick a "ja?" on the end of all of her sentences? Only a few days until we find out...

The more I see this show, the more I wonder why insane freaks are deciding the direction of fashion for the rest of us. The “experts” and “designers” get weirder every season. What the Hell is that dinosaur guy?

As for Marjorie and Elina, just because you’re devoid of normal emotions doesn’t mean you’re being European. It just means you’re a vapid, unfeeling bitch. All the Europeans I know, (and yes, I know a lot of ‘em) are very expressive. In my immediate circle, I have friends who are from Germany, Denmark, Holland, England, Greece, and France. I have also met many of their visiting families and friends. None of them are uptight or unable to show emotion. And all of them were actually raised in those countries, coming here as adults (the man from Holland moved here when he was in his 50s.) I think the assessment regarding their behavior being more attributable to their moms is probably accurate.

One more thing: Margie…consider braces for your lower teeth. Holy Cow! I was disturbed every time she opened her mouth during the commercial shoot.

Culture plays a HUGE part (though I am not discounting uptight parents). As someone living overseas, let me give you a couple of cultural situations between the US and Europe:

1. When shopping in Sweden, you wait for the clerk to help you. If she is sitting there having a cup of tea or chatting to a friend instead of working the cash register, you wait. You don't say "Excuse me" or anything. You wait. To do otherwise would be considered rude. If you acted that way in the US, you would NEVER get to pay for your stuff. In many cases, the clerk expects you to say "Excuse me" to indicate that you need help or that you are ready to be checked out.

2. I am a historic costumer. I also do a lot of historic dance and other reenactment stuff. Currently, we live in England. A week ago, my husband and I attended a Regency Ball. We were both in full period-correct Regency evening clothes. We needed to stop off at the local supermarket to pick something up before the ball so we were in our full kit. Now, my gown could be considered just a regular evening gown, I suppose, but my husband was rocking the full on Mr. Darcy look. There is no way anyone would confuse that with normal evening wear. It was a Saturday evening and the store was somewhat busy. Everyone was looking at us out of the corner of their eye but no one person said anything or even really made eye contact. There was one boy who I saw whisper to his mom but she shhed him and said that we would be embarrassed if he said anything to us. Huh? Like we didn't KNOW we were dressed in historic clothes, right? Anyway, we have been in similar situations in the US. People immediately came up to us to ask questions "Are you in a play? Is that uncomfortable to wear? Are you going to the ren faire? How do you go to the toilet?" etc.

I think by looking at just these two examples you can see why some people might be more embarrassed (or feel more restrained) by situations that wouldn't faze people in the US.

I agree that the key is the parents. If the parents are more open to what is going on around them and to the US culture, perhaps someone might not have the issues these two girls have. But the Euro factor is a part of the equation even if the parents are partly to blame.

So I guess we agree to disagree, Hoolia. I still love your recaps. :)

Just need to point out that I'm not the echo, I started this part of the conversation.

See? I've lived outside of American for 20 of the last 23 years (damn, time flies...), and I'm still 100% American. Heh.

Although I'm definitely raising my kids with the strictness of a European-- can't stand my Anglo/American friends' kids, bunch of spoiled, disrespectful brats.

I'm definitely on the Snooty Bootches/itchy side of the fence.

I find that the vast difference between the US and Canada is the "melting pot" ideal. In the US, I find that people tend to expect immigrants to assimilate to their culture and "become" American, otherwise they should just go back to their own country.

In Canada, it's completely different. People are obviously expected to adapt legally (like just because you can kill your wife and have no consequences over there doesn't mean it's cool here) but that kind of "become a Canadian" mentality isn't pushed as much here.

I found Marjorie to be annoying simply because she whines, not what she whines about, if you know what I mean. I agreed with her and Elina, for the most part, and I think that Sam was being incredibly ignorant. Obviously, yes, when you move to a different country you adapt, but there IS a part that's engrained in your brain.

My parents, for example, are stricter than anyone else's parents I know. My dad comes from New Zealand, from a very "British" family - they don't show emotion very much, they don't really hug people and they believe in discipline and hard work. My dad has been in Canada for the better part of his life, but he's never adopted the "huggy", friendly North American culture that my mother's family has.

So I was raised with one parent of each.

I'd have to disagree. I know plenty of Europeans who don't whine bout being Europeans. They might say they enjoy things in Europe that they can't have here but not that being European has held them back. As someone who grew up in Asia, I've had quite a difficult time adjusting the first 2 years. but have since been living with ease. and I came here when I was 16. Not at 8 years old. Although I don't like Sam at all, I think her "didn't you come here when you were 8?" didn't deserve a "that's so rude!" answer.

but then again,.. these girls are super young. I guess when I was that age, I was stupid too. So don't really think it's a biggie. just hope they grow out of that phase.

Yeah, I should point out that I only agree with Elina's assertion that there's a difference there, not with Madge's insistence on using that difference as a crutch to whine and complain.

Besides, who gives a shit about their personalities? They're trying to be models, not astronauts. And they're just kids anyway. Who has real character when they're 18 years old? Let 'em whine, I say.

But someone ought to force that Marjorie to eat once in a while. Ick.

Now, lets move this discussion on to weightier matters, like, why does my heart sing whenever Analeigh comes onscreen?...hum-bum-dum-dumbly-dee-dum...

I agree with the fact that it is easy to forget how young these girls are. Most of them are only 18 or 19 and have probably not left home yet or haven't been on their own for long. I know when I was that age I hadn't really figured out who I was yet. Even at 23 or 24, I am a completely different person now then I was then.

I think Elina's steely nature is one of the things that makes her interesting, and the fact that she's now getting weepy, is all the more telling that there's some marshmellow somewhere in that heart of stone. I do think Mommsie had lots to do with those two, and all of us, and I think some of us carry that legacy for life. I'll bet Sheena will find some of her latent Mom traits when she settles down and starts a family . . . don't we all turn into our parents . . . sigh . . . and don't we all say we can't believe it when we sound like them . . .

I did think being offended at Sam's comment was over the top, but as mentioned, they are kids--I can't think of them as the age of my niece, but they are . . . it's so weird to think of them that way . . .

I think it's terrible to be this far along and the girls don't know how to model . . . for real, it's worse than Janice D's models . . . if they can't walk or model at all, why are they there--I realize they are there to entertain us, but I like to watch people excel call me crazy again!

Thanks for the cap, Holia, and quite the discussion on this one . . .

Man, I love the twists and turns these comment sections take. I can't believe I'm agreeing with Itchy (except in the whole Elina is hot thing.)

OK... I'm a European living in the US, and I think Marjorie and Elina are pretty much a pair of tools. But yeah, I totally agree with the people who have talked about the age thing. When M and E get so pissed at Sam's comment, which seemed pretty inocuous, at first I thought "what a pair of bitches" and then I remembered how it was when I first came here when I was 17, for one year as an exchange student in high school. Most of the time it was somebody just trying to make conversation and asking, well, pretty stupid questions, but hey, at least they were asking, not telling, me how things were over there. But then there were people at my high school who told me I COULDN'T be from Spain because I have blue eyes (this happened three times.) I had this really surreal argument with this guy who was so sure of where Spain was (somewhere in South America, right? a huge continent where you're anyway only allowed to have dusky skin and black hair and eyes, right?) and what Spaniards are supposed to look like that he got really mad at me when I tried to politely correct his very very stupid opinions. So I don't know what kind of stupidity Marjorie and Elina have confronted in school about Europe. Maybe they're a little oversensitive due to some of that. Or maybe they're just a pair of utensils (didn't someone in one of these comment boards say utensil should be the feminine form of tool?)

And before anyone takes my little rant wrong, let me assure you there are plenty of morons in Europe as well, and I knew quite a few of them in high school, too.

Oh, but since I'm from Southern Europe don't even get me started on this whole Easter Bunny thing... :-) (I hate that rabbit!!!!)

Wow, who knew TVgasm had so many cross-cultural readers? I didn't!

cattyfan - I didn't notice Marge's teeth but now you'll have me on the lookout in future episodes.

Snootchy Bootchs - I'll agree to disagree... but just allow me to play devil's advocate here for a moment. The example you use with local customs in Sweden, you abide by them, yes? You don't barge in and be the obnoxious American who demands that they are helped? So, technically, wouldn't that be assimilating with the culture - something that Elina and Marge are reluctant to do? (But - bonus points for using the word toilet, you made me feel like I was back living in London again!)

itchy - In my experience, not all Europeans raise their kids strictly... Northern Europeans seem to have them on a tighter leash. Those Italians let their kids run around and do whatever they please. Some of them make the most obnoxious American kids look like little angels!

georgiababe - 100% agreed that the annoyance of Margie is more that she's whining/complaining/getting worked up than whatever it is that she's whining about.

chibby and blazergirl - Very good point about them being so young. I feel like I kept that in mind earlier in the competition, but they look so old it's easy to forget. As you say, there is a huuuge difference between who you are as a person in your late teens versus your early twenties.

juddfan - Word. No one is excelling this season and it sucks. I also am more and more frequently getting those flashes where I hear my mother's voice in mine... and it scares the crap out of me. Booooo for not being able to escape our parents!

sayhuh - Fantastic moral to all of these stories: there's ignorant people everywhere.

And a final word from Hoolia - the more I think about it, the more I think this whole Europe/emotions argument is ridiculous in general due to the fact that these girls are in this competition voluntarily and are choosing to pursue this as a career. Maybe if you have a difficult time showing your emotions, you shouldn't be pursuing a career where that's one of the main job descriptions. Do something else where you can be more introverted. Or adapt and succeed - there are PLENTY of world-famous supermodels who come from places other than the US!

Yep, haven't been to Italy yet. It's on the list.

But it just struck me...isn't being a supermodel all about mixing with a hugely international set?

So eventually the American Pie girls are going to learn what's up anyway.

Oh yeah, Elina's hot all right...but more in a 'five years from now' sense, after she's fleshed out a bit, experienced true love, etc. etc. That'll put a smile on her face...Maybe a burger or two.

In the meantime, I keep coming back to this recap just for the pic of Analeigh. So for that, thanks!

Itchy:

Is that because she looks like a blow up doll? *snickers and runs*

Heh heh...ah Snootchy, you've been living overseas too long, been warped by that decadent European lifestyle ;-D

Well, part of the reason I like Analeigh is that she seems like the only normal person (and that includes all of the judges and other assorted weirdos on this show). Dunno if she's model worthy, but she's definitely the marrying kind. Too bad I'm old enough to be her father.

Oh stop that. Stop it right now. :-D

"The girls get all dolled up on the clothes they have to model and it looks like a piñata threw up all over everyone's quinceañera best."

BEST ANTM DESCRIPTION EVER!!!

It's sad when season 2 of CANADA'S Next Top Model is more interesting than this one (Sinead was robbed!). Even with Isis, this cycle is just so boring.

It's like this is the Opposite Day Cycle of ANTM. Previously, the panel was all, "We need to see more personality when you're in front of us blah blah." And this cycle, they seem to be getting rid of everyone that has a personality. Snooze. I'm so sick of the whole "Elina, you need to open up" crap. She's like the Jade of this Cycle . . . Jade on Opposite Day. She'll probably be in the bottom two until she's in the top three. Annoying.

I can't stand Marjorie. She's annoying as hell. I'm hoping that Analeigh will win, even though I've seen toast with more personality.

I'm way late, but I want to defend myself and say I did live in France for a while. Also lived in Belgium and Germany for several years.